More on gay marriage in California

[chicken]

This is a very interesting article addressing some of the interesting implications of the ruling. It's always been obvious to everyone that (as the article says) what happens in California does not stay in California. It's population, size, and economy make its influence on the rest of the nation and the world as a whole quite compelling. That's why I'm hoping that the ruling will stick, and this will start a domino effect across the nation.

This part of the article made me cry (but I'm generally a crier anyway):

It is helpful for the California opinion that it closely resembles a U.S. Supreme Court decision that has stood the test of time: Loving v. Virginia. In that 1967 ruling, the court struck down all remaining state bans on interracial marriage under the federal constitution ... On the 40th anniversary of her victory, African-American plaintiff Mildred Loving last year issued a statement urging that gays be allowed to marry.

I always think about the fact that I might not be here on this planet if it weren't for Loving v. Virginia and similar rulings, since my parents were an interracial couple. This makes me cry, too. Yes, I cry a lot.

If the Florida November ballot item attempting to ban gay marriage passes, I feel very strongly that I would not want to live here anymore. I don't want to live where I'm not welcome, where we as human beings and as a married couple are made to feel that what we have done and are doing is illegal, that we are somehow sub-human.

The fourth anniversary of our marriage back in Massachusetts is in a little over a month. I cannot imagine our fifth anniversary rolling around without some major life change(s) accompanying it.

Comments

[mmcirvin.livejournal.com]

Nobody really seems to know whether California's amendment referendum will pass or not. Opponents of the ruling keep talking about the referendum that passed in 2000, but when it comes to same-sex marriage, 2000 was a long, long time ago. California seems to be pretty close to 50/50 over this right now, and who knows what it will be like after a few months of legal gay marriage and a big election campaign?

The most fretting on political blogs seems to come from people for whom it's all about the presidential horserace, and they're now convinced this means 2008 will be a repeat of 2004. A few people even believe that Goodridge and this case were somehow the result of some kind of right-wing conspiracy to make gay-marriage cases break in big election years.

But I've always been in the camp who believed that the effect of gay marriage on the 2004 election was overstated, and I have trouble believing that it's as radioactive an issue four years later. For that matter, I think Scott Lemieux pointed out that New Jersey's almost-legalization was predicted at the time to be a big drag on the Democrats for 2006, and it really didn't register at all.

[chicken-cem.livejournal.com]

That's interesting -- the conspiracy theory, while frightening, seems unlikely.

[mmcirvin.livejournal.com]

Four years ago, when it was all breaking in my own state, I actually thought it'd be a bigger deal than it was--that we'd have at least a riot or two. The thing about same-sex marriage (like civil unions before it) is that the moment it becomes legal in some jurisdiction, the scariness of it seems to rapidly melt away.

Now in California, the big question is whether there's enough time for that to happen. Maybe not, since in California it's much easier to amend the constitution by ballot question, and the amendment's going to be on the ballot this November instead of maybe a couple of years later. Apparently public support for gay marriage there has actually been flat in the low to mid-40s for the past few years (contra my previous post), so there is some resistance to overcome. But that's not the same as asking people whether they'll vote for this amendment, and really it's anyone's guess.

My feeling about the presidential race is that gay marriage is not going to be as big a deal as in 2004. Obama's being cagey about it in the time-honored way, and unlike Kerry he's not actually from the state where the big controversy is happening. Meanwhile, unlike GWB, McCain's not really comfortable playing the fundamentalist culture warrior--he tries but he's really bad at it. If it does become a big deal, it will be because Obama screwed up bigtime and failed to keep the spotlight on war, pocketbook issues and the incredible suckitude of Republican control.

[chicken-cem.livejournal.com]

the moment it becomes legal in some jurisdiction, the scariness of it seems to rapidly melt away

No rain of frogs, no "un-doing" of heterosexual marriages ...

In fact, I saw a study in which they found that the divorce rate amongst hetero couples in Massachusetts has actually dropped in the last four years. Now of course there is no direct causal relationship here, but it's still very interesting.

[mmcirvin.livejournal.com]

...the conspiracy theory, by the way, seems to be mostly being pushed by this one TPM Cafe commenter named "kozmik" who is convinced the nation is being manipulated by a cabal of rich gay Republicans who time their gay-rights cases to keep Republicans in the White House. He's got a weird bug up his butt about it.

[mmcirvin.livejournal.com]

Another interesting case that people seem to rarely talk about is, of all places, Rhode Island. They've settled on a peculiar compromise: same-sex couples can't get married there, but they'll recognize Massachusetts marriages. So if you went back there you'd have legally married status now.

[zandra-x.livejournal.com]

Let's hope America realizes that there are a lot bigger problems than who somebody wants to form a stable relationship with. 8 /

[zandra-x.livejournal.com]

And I'm saying "problems" in my sarcastic voice.

[chicken-cem.livejournal.com]

How exactly do Mark Foley and Larry Craig fit into this "kozmik" guy's world view, then?

[chicken-cem.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately there are a lot of idiots who do actually view it as a problem. Let's hope there are fewer of them than last time.

[anelith.livejournal.com]

Wow, have 4 years gone by so fast? Whoosh! *head spins*

I hope the Florida ban doesn't pass. I don't know what to expect in California in terms of whether this wonderful ruling will stick. I live in hope.

[chicken-cem.livejournal.com]

I know, it doesn't seem like that many years already.

We all live in hope!

[kaydee23.livejournal.com]

California has a lot of influence with the other states. I hope this causes other states to follow suit.

I would imagine that living in Florida would become pretty untenable if the ban passes.

I've been to Southern California the most because my aunt lives in San Diego, but I love the whole state.

I can't believe you got married 4 years ago! It seems like yesterday.

[chicken-cem.livejournal.com]

I can't believe you got married 4 years ago! It seems like yesterday.

It really doesn't seem like that long ago.