Angel 4x6 Spin the Bottle -- Amnesia question

[chicken]

Since not very many of you are members of angelphilosophy I thought I'd repost my question here ...



Looking back on Season Four with fore-knowledge of Jasmine's control of Cordelia, almost from day one, I am now confused about amnesia. Let me explain. My take is that Jasmine took over Cordelia starting right at the end of The House Always Wins. That she then faked Cordy's amnesia in order to figure out how to impersonate her, and that she was largely in control from then on. How much of the 'real' Cordelia was in a back corner of her mind? I don't know. That may be beside the point. The thing is, Jasmine has two episodes -- Slouching Toward Bethlehem and Supersymmetry -- during which to perfect her impersonation, before the episode in question (Spin the Bottle, of course) comes along.

So my question is -- given that Jasmine is a powerful, er, Power, wouldn't she be immune to the effects of a spell such as this? So wouldn't she be (double)faking amnesia in Spin the Bottle? During the spell, what is her mind aware of? Does she really forget some of the things she's learned about Cordelia during the last two episodes? Or is it all fakery? Does she in fact have more awareness of what's going on around her during the spell than anyone else does?

Thanks for any insights.

Comments

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

I think she could have been faking in Spin the Bottle - 17-year-old Cordelia knew and would have recognised Angel. And it was Cordelia who broke the bottle.

[chicken-cem.livejournal.com]

Thanks for this very much -- everyone over on angelphilosophy disagrees, so I really needed this perspective!

[keever.livejournal.com]

Dunno. But stuff like this is exactly why season four ended up making me a little mad.

[chicken-cem.livejournal.com]

I don't understand mad -- I find the connundrum fascinating. Please explain! :-)

[keever.livejournal.com]

Mostly, what I found maddening isn't specifically related to the amnesia issue, but that I didn't like what they did with Cordelia period. It started with the whole romantic arc with Angel, and I don't think the character ever recovered. Some of it was that Charisma wasn't up to the material that she was given after it was revealed that she was "evil," and some of it was the writing.

I'm honestly still a little confused as to what we're supposed to believe in terms of how events were manipulated. I know that I felt clearer after having watched season four on DVD again, but maybe I need one more pass through to understand what the writers were going for. Thematically, it all makes perfect sense to me, but there's something there that's not ringing true, and I can't quite put my finger on it.

[chicken-cem.livejournal.com]

Some of it was that Charisma wasn't up to the material that she was given after it was revealed that she was "evil,"...

Do you think that's why they brought in some new blood, like Gwen and Faith?

... and some of it was the writing.

Do you think the writers weren't writing up to their own potential, or do you think that Joss was stretched too thin with three shows, and just didn't have time to vet scripts enough?

I'm honestly still a little confused as to what we're supposed to believe in terms of how events were manipulated.

So am I, and that's why I'm asking.

[keever.livejournal.com]

Honestly? I think Gwen was Joss'/some of the writers' attempt at getting the attention of the X-Men people so that they could have jobs when the show was over. And, um, it kind of worked, didn't it? Seriously, I'm not all that familiar with that franchise, but it seemed like the introduction of that character was made for that universe. So who knows?

As for Faith, I think she's just a character that they love and know how to write well, and Eliza Dushku really sells it. Plus, they made themselves some terrific backstory that made the material really sing. But that she felt like more of an injection of energy into Angel than she did into Buffy that season (although I thought she worked great on both shows) probably says something about the lack of sharp female energy, what with Charisma off kissing beasties. (Ugh. That "give mama some sugar" scene still makes me wince with its all-around badness.)

I suspect that the writers probably tried their best, but they really got thrown a monkey wrench when they knew they were going to have a heavily pregnant actress on their hands for a good amount of the season. And really, Cordelia can't convincingly spend that long standing behind counters. I think they figured that it would be better to write it into the show, but they didn't quite think everything through in the short amount of time that they must have had to rejigger the plot.

I guess that's why when Skip came and explained that everything back to the reason that Connor was even born had been manipulated to bring Jasmine forth, it rang false to me, because there was obviously no way that had been planned out. It just felt tacked on, and didn't work for me.

Yeah, I definitely need to watch it again. So damned confusing. Plus, I want my season five DVD set now! 2005 is too far away.

[chicken-cem.livejournal.com]

Honestly? I think Gwen was Joss'/some of the writers' attempt at getting the attention of the X-Men people so that they could have jobs when the show was over. And, um, it kind of worked, didn't it? Seriously, I'm not all that familiar with that franchise, but it seemed like the introduction of that character was made for that universe. So who knows?

I agree -- at first she seemed right out of The X-Files at the beginning with the flashback to her as a little girl, but then later I thought she was more of an X-Men type, with the Gift-imposed loneliness and the snarky attitude and the leather pants. I have to stop being a perv.

As for Faith, I think she's just a character that they love and know how to write well, and Eliza Dushku really sells it. Plus, they made themselves some terrific backstory that made the material really sing.

Are you talking about the Orpheus dream here? Because if so, yes -- the little backstory trip Angelus and Faith took was pretty awesome.

But that she felt like more of an injection of energy into Angel than she did into Buffy that season (although I thought she worked great on both shows) probably says something about the lack of sharp female energy, what with Charisma off kissing beasties.

And Willow really helped put an injection of energy into AtS, too -- that episode with the re-ensouling was just amazing. Aly and Amy worked well together, as did obviously Aly and Alexis, and Eliza worked well with everyone. It felt so energized that perhaps that's one reason BtVS felt less so, when Willow and Faith went back there. Plus the bedside "it sucks being lonely slayers, but at least we are hot chicks with superpowers" dialog between Buffy and Faith just didn't ring true to their characters. First off they should have had more slashy subtext and mumble mumble here I go being a fucking perv again, and second if it was gonna ring false like that anyway, with the lack of subtext, they should've just ended the scene sooner. Their relationship wasn't really given the development it needed even in a totally non-slashy context, and come to think of it, neither was Faith and Wes's -- after all that torture, and rehab, you'd think they'd get a fuller conversation, some apologies, something. I suppose the writers felt really rushed in both cases.

I suspect that the writers probably tried their best, but they really got thrown a monkey wrench when they knew they were going to have a heavily pregnant actress on their hands for a good amount of the season. ... it rang false to me, because there was obviously no way that had been planned out. It just felt tacked on, and didn't work for me.

It would be very interesting to see a storyboard of their plans from before she got pregnant -- what was the plot actually like before it got rejiggered, and does it ring true with how the characters all turned out in season five?

Plus, I want my season five DVD set now! 2005 is too far away.

I agree -- I can't wait to see that Smile Time featurette.

From here, you can:

[keever.livejournal.com]

I meant Faith's backstory in general -- her watcher, her anger, going to jail, etc. -- but yeah, "Orpheus" was great. It moved her story and Angel's forward.

I forgot about Willow! But yeah, she was another breath of fresh air. I wish they had carried more of that energy into what Willow had to do on Buffy that season, too.