Imagine our surprise when all of a sudden Aaron Brown on CNN is telling us things like "There was a quiet under-the-radar campaign to reach out to the evangelical base by Karl Rove...." There was? Jesus, I didn't think I was that ignorant or unobservant. Where was I? Under a rock?
Yes, they know what they're doing, but I think they are naive about what kind of religious and spiritual enrichment they can really expect as a result. That is to say, I think some of them (but not all) are naive about this, because they've been preached at so much by Pat Robertson et al. for thirty years, that the brainwashing has completely taken over their minds.
Did you read that link I posted about the Christian Reconstructionists? I don't think they care so much about religious and spiritual enrichment. It's all about the Rapture for them.
Yes, I did read that article about Christian Reconstructionists.
Fundamentalists such as my family have no idea how thoroughly they have been orchestrated by agenda-driven Christian media and other innovations of the past few decades.
This quote makes me feel that many people don't know what they're doing -- their behavior has been *orchestrated*.
...what is truly happening in this country, the thing that has been building for a long, long time---a holy war, a covert Christian jihad for control of America and the entire world. Millions of Americans are under the spell of an extraordinarily dangerous mass psychosis.
My ex-girlfriend's father was a believer in The Rapture. At his church, the parishioners would practice jumping, literally, leaping off the ground as high as they could, so that when The Rapture came, they would be closer to the sky and thus more likely to be swept up and fly. This was deadly serious, in spite of its clear insanity. Like the author, my ex-girlfriend was forced to pretend to agree with theories on The Rapture when her father became ill, just to shut him up about it. He viewed her homosexuality as a complete abomination, and vowed to help "save" her and bring her around to his views, which again she was forced to give lip service to, to mollify an ill father. Of course no sane person can believe these things, but mass psychosis is real.
The only question is whether or not it is possible to tear younger such Christians away from these erroneous beliefs, and if so, how?
From there it was a short step for Christian Dominionist leaders to conclude that such magnificent infallibility [of the Bible] should be enforced upon all other people.
Why do these folks purposely flout the founding ideas of America? The idea that no particular religious belies should ever be "enforced" on any people? Do they see how un-American their religious conformity is, how dangerous to democracy? I mean, it's clear that they don't see it, and if they do, they don't care, but again, there HAS to be a way to convey this basic idea to the younger Christians before it is too late. Outlawing their home schooling won't work, because one cannot outlaw home schooling, as it is not the kind of thing that should inherently be outlawed. Academic rigor in home schooling is unenforcable, although a good idea. The Bible folks just pretend to teach what the state says, but secretly spend all day teaching the Bible. In Colorado, our next door neighbors were like this. The kids would sit in the backyard listening to a Bible reading on Books on Tape for an hour, and that was the extent of their daily curriculum. I am not surprised by any of this. I just want to know if there is a way to culturally shift some younger Christians away from these ways of thinking, or if indeed there is no way to do so. How did the author of the article come to think differently from the way his family thinks? How can he figure out a way to help others like himself, people who have doubts, gain the strength to rebel?
I wish I knew. I went to one of those Baptist things where they denounce the Devil's music and try and get kids to burn their albums. I was HORRIFIED.
I just don't know if it is possible to get people to understand that the foundation of America is not "do whatever you think God wants and tell others to do the same." But there is a distinction between having your faith guide you and using your "faith" as an excuse to not use your brain, logic, the facts at hand, etc. when leading a country.
The first type you can read all about in the New Testament...
The second type is what the Romans invented when the Romans decided they were Christians. Here's the Changelog: 1. New rule: Never Question authority (word of God by proxy). 2. New rule: It's okay to kill unsaved persons and send them to hell if it scares other unsaved people into believing (wrath of God by proxy). 3. New rule: You're allowed to force your beliefs on others. It doesn't matter that forcing people to behave like Christians has a negative effect on getting them to believe, as long as they say they're Christians in the polls (psuedo conversion).
as long as they say they're Christians in the polls (psuedo conversion)
And co-opting local pagan relgious traditions is part and parcel of this. The yuletide tree became the Christmas tree, and spring time fertility rites and symbols like eggs and baby bunnies became part of the Easter tradtion. It doesn't matter is the people continue to practice their non-Christian ways as long as they are superficially announced to be Christians, apparently.
Christians don't use Christmas trees and Easter Bunnies anymore. The ones that do still don't know how those things were joined, despite all the kerfuffle about it nowadays, or they don't care. Considering how Christmas and Easter have both been subsequently co-opted (or co-opted back), I don't care either.
If I were to consider any particular group responsible for things their predecessors have done, I'd have a reason to kill everybody. I hate Bush 'cos he's corrupting Christianity in the now.
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(no subject)
Date: 2004-11-04 12:03 am (UTC)(I'm trying on Xander style denial to see how it works out for me....)
(no subject)
Date: 2004-11-04 08:04 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-11-04 09:18 am (UTC)shock
Date: 2004-11-04 01:06 am (UTC)Re: shock
Date: 2004-11-04 08:06 am (UTC)Re: shock
Date: 2004-11-04 10:04 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-11-04 07:02 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-11-04 08:08 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-11-04 08:19 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-11-04 08:51 am (UTC)Fundamentalists such as my family have no idea how thoroughly they have been orchestrated by agenda-driven Christian media and other innovations of the past few decades.
This quote makes me feel that many people don't know what they're doing -- their behavior has been *orchestrated*.
...what is truly happening in this country, the thing that has been building for a long, long time---a holy war, a covert Christian jihad for control of America and the entire world. Millions of Americans are under the spell of an extraordinarily dangerous mass psychosis.
My ex-girlfriend's father was a believer in The Rapture. At his church, the parishioners would practice jumping, literally, leaping off the ground as high as they could, so that when The Rapture came, they would be closer to the sky and thus more likely to be swept up and fly. This was deadly serious, in spite of its clear insanity. Like the author, my ex-girlfriend was forced to pretend to agree with theories on The Rapture when her father became ill, just to shut him up about it. He viewed her homosexuality as a complete abomination, and vowed to help "save" her and bring her around to his views, which again she was forced to give lip service to, to mollify an ill father. Of course no sane person can believe these things, but mass psychosis is real.
The only question is whether or not it is possible to tear younger such Christians away from these erroneous beliefs, and if so, how?
From there it was a short step for Christian Dominionist leaders to conclude that such magnificent infallibility [of the Bible] should be enforced upon all other people.
Why do these folks purposely flout the founding ideas of America? The idea that no particular religious belies should ever be "enforced" on any people? Do they see how un-American their religious conformity is, how dangerous to democracy? I mean, it's clear that they don't see it, and if they do, they don't care, but again, there HAS to be a way to convey this basic idea to the younger Christians before it is too late. Outlawing their home schooling won't work, because one cannot outlaw home schooling, as it is not the kind of thing that should inherently be outlawed. Academic rigor in home schooling is unenforcable, although a good idea. The Bible folks just pretend to teach what the state says, but secretly spend all day teaching the Bible. In Colorado, our next door neighbors were like this. The kids would sit in the backyard listening to a Bible reading on Books on Tape for an hour, and that was the extent of their daily curriculum. I am not surprised by any of this. I just want to know if there is a way to culturally shift some younger Christians away from these ways of thinking, or if indeed there is no way to do so. How did the author of the article come to think differently from the way his family thinks? How can he figure out a way to help others like himself, people who have doubts, gain the strength to rebel?
(no subject)
Date: 2004-11-04 09:34 am (UTC)I just don't know if it is possible to get people to understand that the foundation of America is not "do whatever you think God wants and tell others to do the same." But there is a distinction between having your faith guide you and using your "faith" as an excuse to not use your brain, logic, the facts at hand, etc. when leading a country.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-11-04 11:04 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-11-04 11:29 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-11-10 07:22 am (UTC)The first type you can read all about in the New Testament...
The second type is what the Romans invented when the Romans decided they were Christians. Here's the Changelog:
1. New rule: Never Question authority (word of God by proxy).
2. New rule: It's okay to kill unsaved persons and send them to hell if it scares other unsaved people into believing (wrath of God by proxy).
3. New rule: You're allowed to force your beliefs on others. It doesn't matter that forcing people to behave like Christians has a negative effect on getting them to believe, as long as they say they're Christians in the polls (psuedo conversion).
(no subject)
Date: 2004-11-10 08:28 am (UTC)And co-opting local pagan relgious traditions is part and parcel of this. The yuletide tree became the Christmas tree, and spring time fertility rites and symbols like eggs and baby bunnies became part of the Easter tradtion. It doesn't matter is the people continue to practice their non-Christian ways as long as they are superficially announced to be Christians, apparently.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-11-11 12:05 pm (UTC)If I were to consider any particular group responsible for things their predecessors have done, I'd have a reason to kill everybody. I hate Bush 'cos he's corrupting Christianity in the now.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-11-11 01:35 pm (UTC)